A question before sleep

As we hunkered over our computers and read our Twitter feeds tonight, what good did we do for God’s kingdom?

9 thoughts on “A question before sleep

  1. Hi John,

    I don’t disagree with your sentiment. I wonder, though, if even times like this can later prove important to the Church’s long-term witness. Take the Arian controversy, for instance. There were two mutually exclusive and unbending positions, some animosity, and an actual exile as a result. In the middle of that moment, it would be hard to call that a great good for God’s kingdom. But what would the course of Christianity have been without it?

    1. I believe to answer that question as individuals we would need to read through the nights conversation and search for what in it had anything at all to do with God or His kingdom. In other words, was there any care at all in the hearts and minds given towards God or His Kingdom? Was faith empowered or was fear empowered?

    2. That is an interesting model to compare this controversy with. You write, “In the middle of that moment, it would be hard to call that a great good for God’s kingdom.” I think it would safe to say it would be impossible to find any good at all in the “middle of that moment” which was a moment that lasted for two generations. Why? Because during those two generations no action was taken to remove the heresy being taught and embraced by many.

      I believe the actions in the end are what impacted the Church and the Kingdom of God for good. Once it was finally determined that Arius and his teaching was not Truth, but rather a destructive lie, there was NO delay in removing Arius from his office, and excommunicating both him AND his supporters.

      It had to be a difficult decision. One that required submission and obedience to the Word of God……..and courage.

      Will this be the model the UMC follows?

      1. It took some five years after the initial controversy for the Council of Nicea to be convened, and it actually took decades after the Council of Nicea for the Arian position to be fully extinguished. In fact, the chief supporter in Eastern Christianity of the Nicene position, Athanasius, was exiled repeatedly for refusing to confess an Arian creed. And Hosius of Cordova, a bishop who was one of Constantine’s closest advisors and a supporter of the Nicene position throughout his life, was forced at the age of 101 to sign an Arian creed–and then excommunicated once he went back home to Spain.

        Only after the Council of Constantinople (381 AD) was the position of the Council of Nicea (325) held up indisputably as the orthodox Christian position–and even then, years later, there were complaints that there were still Arian strongholds in various parts of Constantinople.

  2. We got to see another Pastor who once believed what The Word of God teaches change their belief, practice and theology because they had a conflict of interest. They find out a child is homosexual, a friend or they themselves announce their inner desires and everything they once believed is changed.
    God’s Word didn’t change…they did.
    We saw a father of, not one, but three homosexual offspring go to trial for breaking oaths and promises he made not only to God but to all the church he was suppose to shepherd. We get to read membership of that particular church fell. People left and donations slid because the church felt betrayed. Who believes this mans changed theology is based solely on sound thinking and not a conflict of interest?

    We got to watch a video of a committee that was not allowed to exercise their business in peace.
    We saw a group of women, members of “Love Prevails” with no regard for others rights perform a preplanned intentional act meant to disrupt. That performance, and a performance is exactly what it was, would send a respected woman into an irrational rant, while others stood in disbelief and we saw that same woman holding her head in her hand trying to recover.
    If anyone thinks this is the Hand of God at work mending the church there is something wrong with their thinking.

    What good did we do for God’s kingdom?
    If I was not a Christian I would not step a foot near the mess.
    Something has got to change.

    You can check out The Love Prevails web site and read the tactics thy use,

  3. Not enough, I’m afraid. While I believe the sentence was the right one, the thing which concerns me most is the lack of leadership that exists which these past few weeks have illuminated. While statements have been written and filed, nothing from our episcopal leadership seems to be rooted in Scripture but only in our BoD. No one is talking about sin, or about biblical discipline (Matt. 18), nor are they taking this opportunity to teach their flock (all of us) that discipline is an act of mercy with the hope of saving one’s soul, to bring about godly sorrow over sin and a repentance which leads to life.

    I want to hear more Bible from our bishops and less BoD.

    1. It seems God has placed a burden upon your heart and upon the heart of Darcy. You both seem to have words you would like to have heard said by your bishops but did not. I would challenge you to consider if these words and thoughts are now in your hearts to speak. The lack of leadership cannot change unless others receive the courage to step forward…….and lead. You, Chad…..know the enemy’s ways. You know what it is to be in a church and yet still be a captive. You know the power of Christ’s blood. You know what God’s grace and mercy looks like. You have been equipped through experience and the Word of God.


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